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#152: The 3 Ways to Find Meaning in Suffering | Jack Beers
So many of us from divorced or dysfunctional families never learned how to deal with pain and suffering in a healthy way. As a result, we usually either numb the pain or get stuck in bitterness.
When Brandy was only a few months old, her parents divorced due to her father’s alcoholism. From the outside, her story might seem like a “best case” scenario—she was raised by a courageous single mom and later a kind stepfather.
But underneath it all, she carried wounds no one could see. She believed perfection was the path to love. She feared becoming like the very people who hurt her. One wound even stayed buried for 20 years.
In this episode, we explore:
The shocking memory that resurfaced in adulthood—and what it revealed
Why her marriage should’ve failed statistically—and how she and her husband beat the odds
And what her mom did right that every divorced parent needs to hear
If you've ever felt pressure to be perfect, feared repeating your parents’ marriage, or kept wounds hidden, this episode is for you.
Get Jack’s Course or FREE Class: RISE: Drawing Meaning from Suffering Through the Lens of St. John Paul II, Victor Frankl and Jesus
Book a FREE Mentorship Session with Jack
Get Dakota’s FREE Guide, The Biggest Fitness Mistakes to Avoid
Get Joey’s Book or FREE chapters: It’s Not Your Fault
Jocko Willink "GOOD" (Viral Video)
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As a bonus, you'll receive the first chapters from our book, It's Not Your Fault: A Practical Guide to Navigating the Pain and Problems from Your Parents' Divorce.
TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Joey (00:44)
Welcome to the Restored Podcast. I'm Joey Ponnarelli. If you come from a divorced or a broken family, this show is for you. We help you heal your brokenness, navigate the challenges, and build healthy relationships so you can break that cycle and build a better life. My guest today is Jack Beers. Jack has actually been on the podcast before. He's the founder of the Catholic Mentor. On top of over a decade of experience as a speaker and leader in ministry, Jack is a certified mentor through the Catholic Psych Institute, which basically means he's trained to walk with a company.
people who are going through a lot of hard things in life, through storms in life, through an integration of sound psychology and authentic Catholic anthropology. The certification was developed and led by Dr. Greg Batara, who's been on the podcast as well. Jack lives in Cincinnati with his wife and their three children. The truth is that so many of us who come from divorced or dysfunctional families never learned how to deal with pain and suffering in life in a healthy way. And as a result, we usually fall into numbing our pain or we get stuck in bitterness. But
What if, what if you can not only learn how to navigate your pain in healthy ways, but actually draw meaning from your suffering and emerge even stronger? That's what we discussed in this episode, plus the shocking diagnosis that Jack received at 11 years old and how it rewired his entire future, why suffering always pushes you into one of three paths and how only one leads to freedom. We talk about why we often fall into numbing our pain and the three ways to find meaning in suffering and how to overcome the obstacles that prevent it.
And finally, Jack offers a new resource to help you find meaning in your suffering. So if you're suffering, if you're going through pain right now, perhaps because of your parents divorced or the breakdown of your family, this episode is for you. Now in this episode, we do talk about God and faith, that if you don't believe in God, you're totally welcome here. This is not a strictly religious podcast, everyone knows that. So wherever you're at, I'm glad you're here. If you don't believe in God, my challenge for you would be this, just listen with an open mind, even if you were to skip the God parts, you're still gonna benefit from this episode. And with that, here's our
Jack, welcome back to the show, great to have
Jack (02:38)
So good to be with you again, Joey.
Joey (02:40)
This topic is really near and to my heart. And because I think so many of us have gone through life without really receiving any training, formation, any sort of guidance on how to handle pain and suffering in life well, not to mention how to maybe draw meaning from it, how to draw some goodness from it. And what I've seen, especially in my own life and the lives of the young people that we work with, is that so often we respond to pain in really unhealthy, destructive ways.
just to cope with it, just to kind of numb ourselves. And so I'm curious, like, why are you so passionate about helping people draw meaning from suffering and navigating this whole area of like pain?
Jack (03:13)
Yeah, I think we talked a little bit about this the first time that I was here, but I was diagnosed when I was 11 years old with Crohn's disease and the doctors gave dark prognosis. You won't be much taller than five feet, you won't be able to go away to school, you won't be able to hold down a job, you'll have three hospital stays a year every year until you die and your life expectancy is pretty low. And the road to proving that prognosis wrong was extraordinarily difficult.
a lot of suffering, lot of physical suffering, a lot of emotional suffering, being ostracized from other people, but also suffering of the will. In order for me to get healthy, I had to adhere to a really intense diet. This food regimen was 12 foods total, including spices. So, salt is on the list of 12. It was 12. I ate a variation of the same three meals every day for 12 years.
a lot of suffering in that. But when I got to the other side, when I graduated college and I'm six feet tall and I have a job lined up and I had one hospital stay in the 12 years since I had been diagnosed and fully healthy, in remission, living a normal life, I got to that day, I got to that graduation and there was so much personal satisfaction. And I remember feeling just like so much joy and so much
so much meaning and it contrasting with a number of people in my life, in particular, as somebody who I had been close to who had died of a heroin overdose, that it was so clear to me that everybody suffers. It's universal. Like the old phrases that the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. It's like, no, there's another guarantee. That guarantee is that you will suffer and that suffering, you'll either respond to it by drawing meaning out of it.
by it totally breaking you and destroying you, or you'll dive so far into numbing agents. And there's so many different numbing agents, work, drugs, alcohol, sex, now social media and your phone. There's so many numbing agents. Those are the three paths that you can take. There's not a fourth path, there's not 10 options, there's not 50 options, there's three. You can repress it through numbing, it can destroy you and turn you into a bitter person, or you can get better.
One of the phrases I like to use is like, when suffering comes, you can get bitter or better. Like that really is the pathway. And I didn't feel like there was anything special about me. I still don't feel like there's anything special about me, right? Like I don't necessarily have some sort of extra human capacity for suffering or whatever. there isn't necessarily something that makes me an outlier from other people. And so I wanted to reconstruct what happened. Like what did happen?
How did I get from being 11 and just having this horrible prognosis to the last 10 years of my life, total remission, total normalcy, able to do everything that a normal human person would be? How did I get there? And is there a way to duplicate it? And so I just, really wanted to pay forward some of the gifts that had been given to me to other people, because everybody suffers and you actually do have the ability and the capacity to make the most of it.
Joey (06:37)
Now this is again, just really close to my heart. I actually have a talk that I give called ⁓ Better Not Bitter. Yeah, yeah, no, because it's just so important for all of us. Whenever I give the talk, I feel like I'm speaking to myself and everyone else gets to listen. I need to this stuff again and again, because I'm no expert on this stuff, but it's just been a lot of lessons over the years that have been helpful in navigating suffering, because I handled it so poorly so many times. like, okay, this has to be a better way to do this. But I want to stay there a little bit with like,
Jack (06:44)
Really? didn't know that.
Joey (07:06)
Why we handle it poorly. Yeah, why do we handle it so poorly? Obviously like it's really attractive to just binge on social. It's attractive to, you know, fall into like binging on sex or porn or whatever to just numb ourselves. But I'm curious, like what's underneath all of that? Like what are we looking for in those like kind of empty pursuits?
Jack (07:26)
One of it is just escaping, right? When you're confronting something dark and you're uncertain about how things are going to go, you're uncertain about how things are going to change, at a certain point, you want to stop having to confront that thing. Or if you're, let's say you're younger and you just don't have the capacity for it, you can't articulate what's happening to you, right? Like you can't even articulate the emotions. One of the most important jobs of a parent is that when, you know, your three-year-old is throwing a tantrum, that you name what's happening.
You're like, what you feel right now is frustration. You are frustrated. And these are your options in how you can handle being frustrated, right? And so when you suffer, it's so disorienting. It's almost like you come back to that state of like, I don't know what's happening. It's difficult to really orient my life and say, I know where north is, I know where south is. Like it's very disorienting. And so you just, you wanna step out of it. You want to walk away from it.
⁓ And until you have a real sense that there's a pathway forward, you would rather stay distanced from the mess than have it knock you on your butt and you stay on your butt or even try to get up and go forward. One of the things that's really fascinating is when a storm comes in the animal world, there's only one animal that like turns toward the storm and it's the buffalo. Like everybody else, their instinct is to take shelter or to try to outrun the storm, but the buffalo is like,
The shortest distance between me and calm, between me and peace, between me and sun is actually walking into it. And let me turn toward the storm, let me walk into it. And so we're the opposite of the buffalo. Like we're, our natural instinct is to hide, is to run. And it's that flight, or freeze mechanism. And what we don't realize is we have the capacity to be buffalo. Like we can actually turn toward the storm and we can actually walk through it and come out to the other side.
Joey (09:18)
Love that. Love that. So I want to dive into this. Then how does someone draw meaning from suffering? How do we navigate this in a healthier way?
Jack (09:26)
Yeah, so yeah, let's dive into what Viktor Frankl calls the three paths to meaning and we can do that. And if we have a chance to, I'd also like to talk about the obstacles to actually pursuing these three paths because there are serious obstacles to doing that as well. But the three paths are really important and they're accessible to everyone at every time. And here's how I know this. They've been developed by Viktor Frankl, Jewish psychologist who formulated these three paths to meaning.
in the context of being in Auschwitz in a concentration camp and then reapplying it in other contexts in the development of a form of psychology called logotherapy. So what I'll share is tried and tested and tried and tested in the worst of human circumstances. So this is like as raw and as real as we can get to no matter where you are.
As long as you have your mental faculties, you can follow these three paths to drawing meaning from your suffering. The first is in relationship. So Victor Frankl, in his suffering and in his pain, he experienced despair, he experienced a sense of meaningless into what was happening. And instead of absorbing the meaninglessness, instead of absorbing the pain, he actually leveraged his imagination. And he leveraged his imagination to reconnect
with an experience of love. And so he would imagine his wife's face. He'd be walking in what would largely be considered a death march. And he would, in his mind's eye, imagine the love that he experienced from his wife. And love is the highest form of the human experience. And it is the highest form of relational connection. And the reality of connecting with love gave him the inner tools to endure the intensity of the moment. So that's
That's the first one. it's not everybody maybe is sitting there being like, I've encountered love. And if that's the case, like the other option that Viktor Frankl talks about is encountering beauty. Like if your world is so dark and difficult and you're like, I can't even think of a single experience of being loved, go watch a sunrise, go see something or seek something that is beautiful. And Frankl talks about how when you encounter something beautiful that is outside of yourself,
you are actually drawn from outside of your pain and you can look at your pain and you can see your pain with compassion and understanding, but you can also feel at that point in time a desire that will emerge to press on, to keep going, to keep fighting the fight that you're trying to make the most of whatever is in front of you. so, Frankl was on this first step is like,
Even when things get as dark as they can be, the sun still rises in the morning and you can still go see something beautiful that will draw out the best in you. So I want to pause at the first one. I don't want to just necessarily go through all three because I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, on even your own experience of beauty and love and how that maybe has impacted your journey.
Joey (12:36)
Yeah, no, no, thanks for teaching on all this is so good. And one of the things that has hit me always is that just how healing and comforting love is overall. And even like, like you said, maybe someone doesn't have like a romantic partner, a boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, but even in my friendships with other guys, it's like that was incredibly like comforting and helpful to just be in their presence and not even to the extent that we were like talking about really difficult things that would come up at times, but it wasn't a constant like flow of like,
therapy. It was really just being in the presence, doing life together and really challenging each other to like be, you know, better men, to be virtuous men, not just, you know, maybe playing sports or video games together. There was like a bigger purpose, which I was really blessed with in high school to have those guys. So I could definitely see that there. And then when it comes to beauty, I remember just dealing with, you know, a lot of the kind of emotional turmoil and pain that followed my parents' ⁓ split and eventual divorce.
And just how, yeah, exactly what you said, how comforting it was to just watch the sunset, to listen to beautiful music, to eat good food, to just go on adventures with friends, eventually travel. That became such an amazing outlet for me. So I'm tracking it.
Jack (13:45)
Healing,
right? When you go travel, there's a healing component to new things and wonder and seeing that the world is big. My thing was I would go outside, especially in the winter on a clear night, and I would look up and I would just watch my breath move to the stars. And there was something so grounding about that. Like, I'm a guy, I'm not like, I'm gonna go seek beauty, you know? But that's what I was doing. was like, I need to know that there's something bigger happening than just me.
And love, yes, I don't just mean romantic love. I mean agape love or philia love, brotherly love, friendship love. Like an encounter with someone who tells you, like, I love you. One of the things that draws meaning for me out of this is when I work one-on-one with people who have obsessive-compulsive parts or even obsessive-compulsive desire or disorder, they will say things that maybe sound like irrational or whatever. Like I'm going to...
I'm afraid I won't get my car. I'm afraid of getting in my car because if I get my car, I'm going to run someone over. And the natural tendency is to say to them, you're not going to run anyone over. Just get in the car. You can do this. I'll show you. Everything's going to be fine. And it's actually the exact opposite of what you want to do. You don't want to reassure them through logic. You actually want to enter into the pain with them and say, even if that happens, even if you run someone over, you're not separated from love.
you will not do anything that separates you from love. And when I'm working with people, I'm specifically in those instances talking about the love of God. And there's a reason why God is such an important component of healthy therapy. Like it's a grounding experience for people to be able to be like, yes, even if this worst case scenario happens, like even if my parents get divorced or even if I never talk to my dad again, I'm not outside of the love of, I'm not outside of love. I'm not outside of the reach of love.
Even if I do this thing and my whole life crumbles like I'm not outside of it, it gives hope and it creates a context for actually drawing meaning from the suffering and the pain and people who have obsessive compulsive thoughts and ruminations and scrupulosities. mean, they're in serious pain a lot of the time and that's how we draw meaning. Wow.
Joey (15:57)
No, I love all this. I'd love to go deeper into the third point. What was that one?
Jack (16:01)
Okay, so number two actually is self-gift. Yep, so number one is relationships with love and with beauty. Number two is self-gift. So John Paul the Great actually talks about this, that as human beings, we don't just have a vocation, we are a vocation. And our existence as a human being, we are meant to be a self-gift to other people. That's our purpose in life, is to make the invisible God visible.
Joey (16:06)
I see, ⁓
Jack (16:30)
by being a self-gift. And he points to Jesus being really the only figure, like wisdom, guru, spiritual figure, that doesn't say the path to happiness is self-possession or self-mastery for its own sake. He's the only one who says, self-possess yourself, know thyself so you can give thyself. And Viktor Frankl, one of the things that he says in order to draw meaning out of suffering when you're in the context of suffering is that when you suffer, it's self-absorbing and self-defeating.
So if you can get outside of self by thinking of another person, deciding that, you know what, my friend is having a tough day or they have a big job interview, I'm gonna surprise them with coffee. That doing that, making yourself a gift, thinking of another, doing something selfless shows you that you don't have to be consumed or broken by your pain. You can still be a gift to the world. And that, in that context, and the context of suffering is tremendously
St. John Paul II talks about like, that's why Jesus gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan. Because man can't find himself except by making of his life a gift. And suffering, seeing the suffering of another draws love out from you. So even when you're suffering, when you see the suffering of another person, if you allow yourself to engage in that, it will actually draw out the best in you. It will draw out compassion, empathy, generosity, and then you'll see that
You're not broken by your suffering. You're not incapacitated by it. You actually still have the faculties of love and you still have the faculties that you need in order to be a gift. And even more so, if that person knows you're suffering, the gift you give them will have a tenfold impact. They'll be like, my gosh, I know that you're going through this really hard thing and you still thought of me before my job interview? Wow, right? Wow, it's incredible. So that's the second one, self-gift.
And then the third one is probably Frankl's most famous. know, he talked about how as long as we have our mental faculties, the last of human freedoms is choosing your attitude in any given circumstance. And your attitude in response to life can actually draw meaning from it. ⁓ So there's a really viral video that went out by Jocko Willick. And he went through this litany of things that he was, he's a Navy SEAL and he was a commander and he was in charge and
and people would come to him with all their problems. And he started developing this attitude where he would, someone would come up to him and be like, you know, we're out of ammunition over here. And he'd be like, good, good. That means we get to exercise our creativity or whatever it is that he would do. And he was like, I developed this attitude of whether good fortune or ill fortune comes my way, I'm going to respond with, this is for my highest good. Whatever it is, this is coming to me and it can be used for my highest good.
And I get to choose, I choose whether this tends for my highest good or it tends for my destruction. I choose. So he developed this attitude and you can see this across, you know, across the spectrum of people who make the most of their lives through difficult experiences. One of my favorites is Joan of Arc. Joan of Arc was persecuted largely for her faith after she had just saved France from being taken over by England. And so she's persecuted.
And during the persecution, people were like, you know, if you keep down this path, they're going to kill you. And she's like, I'm not afraid. I was born to do this. And I like, I put this over my kid's wall. I'll send you the pic, I'll send you the picture of this, but I had someone come in and paint and paint this picture and put words right above where my kids sleep. And it says, I'm not afraid. I was born to do this. And I call it our family motto. Cause I'm like, if I know it sounds dramatic, like sometimes it's bringing a bazooka to a fist fight, but if
If you get into a context where you're surprised by a test at school and you say, I'm not afraid, I was born to do this, or you realize that you like this girl and you're afraid to go tell her that you like her, I'm not afraid, I was born to do this, whatever this is, rejection, acceptance, boyfriend, ostracization, I was born to do this, they'll live an incredible life, incredible, incredible life, and there's literally nothing that will stop them. They will have a deeply meaningful life.
So those are the three, ⁓ its relationship with love and beauty, its self gift, and then its attitude.
Joey (20:57)
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I love this and we'll definitely make sure to link to that video by Jaco. I am. Yeah, it's a good one. I love that. And it's cool to see too, cause he's not like a deeply religious guy, but you know, there's a lot of even human wisdom in that approach of like, you know, something good can come from this. Not, not all is lost when things don't go our way. And, and you know, through the video, he, talks about specific examples. So definitely a great video. We'll link to that. Thank you for bringing that up. And the other thing I wanted to touch on briefly was
That advice to kind of look outside of your pain, look beyond your pain, look to someone else who's maybe going through something hard and helping them, was really transformative for me. I remember in high school, one of my mentors encouraging me to do that. And it helped so much. I wanted to kind of maybe get your advice on this one thing though. Sometimes I've gotten maybe a little bit of pushback on this or heard the objection that, but we can't always just focus outside of ourselves and focus on other people. There is perhaps a way to escape.
from your pain in an unhealthy way by just focusing on others outside of you. So what's that balance, I'm curious, between like sometimes you need to tend to your wounds, but other times, like you're saying, we have to look beyond our pain ⁓ because there is healing in doing that itself.
Jack (22:44)
So what's great about this question is this is one of the obstacles to drawing meaning from suffering. So the two biggest ones, and there are many, the first one is how you view your life. Do you view your life as something that were you made on purpose? If you were made on purpose for a purpose, you are going to go searching for the meaning and you are going to be willing to endure the dark night before the sun rises. You're gonna be willing to do it because there's
there's a perspective in your mind and in your heart that like you're here to do something meaningful. And it's not necessarily like, ⁓ I'm going to cure cancer. I'm going to do something and go viral. And we know whatever it is that, that is currently most attractive in the world. It might, it might simply be like for me, I got healthy and there's nothing more meaningful than because I got healthy, my kids are in the world. Like there's nothing more meaningful to me than thinking about that. Like,
If I had given up, they wouldn't be alive. I wouldn't know my son's smile. And there's a mystery to meaning in that it works backwards. It has a redeeming quality to it. That while you're going through it, it seems dark and it seems heavy. And when you get to a certain place in your life, you're almost forced to be grateful for it. Because if anything else had been different, you wouldn't get to where you've gotten.
Just like despair works backwards and even some of the pleasure and the joy that you experienced during the time of your trials, it can get taken from you if it leads you to a place of bitterness. If it leads you to a place of getting better, it works backwards. And there's tremendous mysterious meaning that comes from it of like looking back and being, I did make the most of that. And because I made the choices that I made, I'm here now. So that's one of the obstacles. The other obstacle
is just validating the fact that you're in pain. John Paul II says this, and I think it's so counterintuitive for people who are of faith and people who are not of faith. Because you'll go to a funeral in a Christian context and you'll hear people say things like, don't worry about it, they're in a better place. All is well, they're in a better place. And you contrast that with Jesus who knew he was going to resurrect Lazarus, being at the tomb of Lazarus minutes before he resurrected him.
weeping with Martha and Mary validating their emotional experience and their pain for the sake of validating their pain. And Jesus basically saying, resurrect after validating. Even Jesus, like if you look at the life of Jesus as someone who is a great person to model your life after, as someone who's best way to live. Like Jesus validated his own emotions in the Garden of Gethsemane. Like, Father, take this away from me. Jesus' sweat, blood.
because of how anxious he felt and he acknowledged the pain, he acknowledged the fear, he acknowledged his desire of not wanting to suffer and not wanting to go through that. And then because his feelings didn't rule his life, he still made the choice to do the thing he was called to do and the resurrection came from that. And so the obstacle oftentimes can be for us that we don't actually confront the brutal reality of our pain. It's like your dad cheated on your mom. Were you not worth it for him to stay faithful?
You know, like that's confront the brutal reality of that. That hurts. That stings. That's awful. That's heartbreaking. That's terrible. Those feelings don't change your calling and who you're made to be. But in order for us to get there, our first step, our first step toward healing and redemption and resurrection is staring that pain in the face and acknowledging it. Like this is terrible. I'm not okay. Doesn't mean I have to wallow in it and I get to ignore pain in other people.
doesn't mean I get to be absorbed by it. But if I don't acknowledge it, the door to the rest of your life is hard to open. Do you think that answers the question, or do you think it creates more mystery?
Joey (26:39)
No, that makes a ton of sense. remind me then the first obstacle is just how you view your life or would you phrase that a little bit differently?
Jack (26:45)
Yeah,
so I talk about it like this. When I was five years old, I was hit by a car and I flew 20 feet in the air. I landed on my head. Like everybody thought I was dead. And that happened at like two o'clock in the afternoon. At 2 a.m., I'm in my bed at home. Severe concussion, sprained neck, bruises all over my body, but no issues. No internal bleeding, no broken bones, no brain damage, nothing. And so for like three years straight, everybody was just like...
It's a miracle, kid. There's gotta be some reason why somebody was looking out for you. There's gotta be. Ever since that moment occurred, I have felt like I'm here on purpose. Before I ever really considered God or had a sense that there was a creator or anything, I just lived in this emotional and spiritual space of there's some purpose to my life. I was given a gift to stay on this earth and be alive, and I need to pay that gift back. And that, when the news hit that
I was sick and that my life might be over, there was a part of me that was like, no, no, I didn't survive that just to be crushed by this. There's something else going on here and I'm gonna try to make the most of this thing. It's that view on life, that view on self, that view on what it means to be human, that changes everything because if you don't believe that, if we just play that out, if it's like I'm here at random, then suffering is random, then obstacles are random and
Who cares if you make the most of it or not? And the reality is the rest of the world cares. Like your potential future kids care, you know? The person that you're meant to help a year from now cares. Like if you go through something, here, I want to say this to you too. ⁓ Sorry if I'm rambling here, but it just, it popped into my head. There's something really mysterious that St. Paul says. St. Paul says that Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was perfect. It's flawless. It was perfect. And
and we can make up for what's lacking in Christ's suffering. And it's like, how do you make sense of those two things? They seem like they're opposites. How do you make sense of them? And John Paul II, he says something so important, and if we believe this, it changes everything. He's like, Jesus' sacrifice was perfect, and there was nothing lacking in it whatsoever. But, but, our ability to relate to Jesus is made easier through the witness of other people. So Jesus is a man
who never married. There's a gap for a woman who has a miscarriage to be able to connect her suffering with Jesus' suffering. And that's bridged by another woman who also went through the same thing, who has found meaning in her suffering, who has found a deeper connection with God and the people around her through her suffering, who is now turning around and talking to this mother over here and giving her hope and making up for what is lacking in the space between where you are and where you...
where you wanna be. And it's the same thing for us. Like when you suffer, when you're going through something difficult, like exactly what you're doing with this podcast, Joey, right? Like if you had never made the most of the suffering that you went through when your parents divorced, you never would have created the podcast. You never would have turned around and lent a helping hand to other people. And how many people would have been worse off because you didn't create this podcast that gives people hope at restoration and healing, right? And so when you're in the mess, if you feel like your life has meaning and has inherent purpose,
you can actually look forward into the future and be like one day I'm gonna get here and I'm gonna turn around and help people like me and that'll be enough. Like that's the type of doors that can be open to you.
Joey (30:20)
That's
good, that's helpful. And I'm curious, I'm eager to hear the other obstacles.
Jack (30:25)
Yeah, so another obstacle is why does God allow suffering? Like, why does suffering exist at all? And another way of looking at this is like the problem of evil. So great minds like Nietzsche, you know, he's a brilliant man, deep philosopher, and he's nihilistic. He essentially believes that there is no real meaning to life, that all there is is a will to power. And he concluded that like all life is is suffering and the best you can do is find a way to pleasure.
Right? Like he did not believe that God existed primarily because of the existence of suffering. And John Paul II, I'm just going to use him. I'm going to stand on his shoulders because he is so compelling on this. He walks us through this in a really powerful way, whether you believe in God or don't believe in God. The wisdom from this is really meaningful. He says it's natural as a human being when you suffer to ask why. He goes as far as to say, as God expects us to ask him.
Why am I suffering with a mind full of dismay and anxiety? God expects us to do that. He doesn't condone us. He doesn't judge us. He doesn't get upset with us. He's actually literally waiting for us to go to him and say, why am I suffering with a mind full of dismay and anxiety? So you unexpectedly lose your spouse. You get a cancer diagnosis. You tear your meniscus. Your car is broken into. You unjustly lose your job. You may say, why is this happening to me? And John Paul II says,
God expects you to go to him as that being your first reaction and say, with a mindful of dismay and anxiety, why? Why? And he said, like, when suffering happens, we're uncomfortable with the uncertainty that exists. Like, why? I'm a twin. Why did I get Crohn's and my twin sister didn't? Right? Why did that happen? You know, why couldn't I have been born to parents who stay together? Why couldn't I have existed and they stayed together? Like, why? Why is that?
Why is that the case? And John Paul II uses the book of Job to communicate our natural responses to that mystery. in Job, so Job, for those of you don't know, Job is the stand-up guy. He's awesome. He's successful at, he's one of the only biblical figures who's great at everything who's a male. He's a great dad, he's a great provider, he's a great leader, he's a great follower of God. He's great at all four, husband, father, provider, and follower of God. And...
You can't, other than St. Joseph, you literally can't find another person who fits that description other than Job. So Job is special, right? He's special. And he loses everything. His wife, his kids, his job, his health, his money, everything. And all of these people come to Job, who are so-called friends, and they're like, you must have done something wrong. You must have done something wrong. Like, God is just, you did something wrong, and now you're being punished. And Job is like,
Nope. Nope. No, I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't deserve this. And Job is the story of a good man who goes from having a dream life to literally the ultimate worst nightmare. And so our natural human tendency is either to just give in and just be like, well, there is no purpose to anything. Everything is random. Or to be like, I somehow deserve this or this is somehow punishment for my ancestors. And this plays out to today.
Like this is happening right now. ⁓ Friends of mine, like a friend of mine, when he got diagnosed with brain cancer when he was a kid, his parents were like, this is punishment for our infidelity. Like our minds need to fill the gap of uncertainty. I don't know why I'm suffering, so I fill in the gap of justice or there is no meaning. And so Job is like, neither of those are satisfying. I know that there's meaning because I've experienced love and I've experienced meaning through love. ⁓
I know that there's meaning. know that nihilism is nonsense. I also know I didn't do anything wrong. So then what's the answer? And so he asks God and he's like, I'm going to sit here and wait. And again, God doesn't come down and like condemn him. He's not like, how dare you ask me this question, you rascal. You're the worst. You unfaithful, terrible person. He says, where were you when I made the heavens and the earth? Which as Saint John Paul the second tells us that we can understand that as like God holds the mystery.
God holds space for the mysteries, like you're not gonna know. You are not going to know. And the answer that I could give you is going to be really unsatisfying for right now. And I'm never going to eliminate the mystery of why suffering exists. I'm only going to create a path to meaning for you. And we can know this too. One of the best examples of knowing this is miscarriage. A couple has a miscarriage and they lose their child and they're devastated and they're really sad. They're able to conceive again and they have another child.
That couple isn't like, thank goodness we lost the first child so we can have this second child, right? Like, they're literally sitting there being like, I wish I had both. And I'll never know why I couldn't meet this child, but I can meet this one. I'll never know this side of heaven. I will never know. And St. John Paul II says, Jesus, he doesn't come and take away the mystery of suffering. He comes and says, I'm here for love.
In order for love to be love, it must be free. And because it's free, people have to have the choice to do good or to do evil. So instead of taking away love, instead of giving you a deep understanding and a satisfying answer as to why the mystery of suffering remains, I'm going to just come and be with you in your pain. I'm going to make sure you're never alone. At a minimum, you're never alone. And as long as I'm with you, and as long as you're never alone, there will always, always be a path.
to draw meaning. so out of this St. John Paul II says, embrace and validate your own emotional experience. Don't explain it away. Don't run from it. Don't numb yourself to the mystery. And also don't give in to the feelings either. You're not your feelings. Your feelings don't determine what you must do. Instead, connect with the reality that you're not alone, acknowledge the pain, and then start walking the path to meaning.
Joey (36:32)
For countless teens and young adults, their parents' divorce is actually the most traumatic thing that they've experienced, but so many feel lost and alone in navigating the challenges. I've been there myself. It's really not easy and it shouldn't be this way. My book, It's Not Your Fault, guides them through those challenges by helping them put their pain into words and begin to heal, work through the emotional problems that they face, cope in healthy ways instead of falling into bad habits, improve their relationship with their parents, navigate the holidays and other life events, and build healthy relationships and so much more.
One Amazon review said this, this book is packed full of really practical help. If you come from a broken family, or even if you don't, but you love someone that does, this book is so helpful. I can't recommend this enough. By the way, it's a quick read and it doesn't need to be read cover to cover. Since it's in question and answer format, you can just read one of the questions and one of the answers. And so if you want to join the thousands of people who've gotten a copy, just go to restoredministry.com slash books.
to get the book or download the free chapters. Again, that's restored ministry.com slash books, or just click the link in the show notes. Love it. So deep. So good. Any other obstacles or do we cover all of them? Yeah.
Jack (37:40)
No, ⁓ there are other hard challenges that we could talk about like the forgiveness. Whenever you suffer, forgiveness comes into the equation and forgiveness is really hard as well. So suffering begets suffering in some ways and the need to forgive yourself and forgive God and forgive other people is really important. But those are the main obstacles to drawing meaning from suffering.
Joey (38:02)
Okay, could you go through the like titles of each just in case people are taking notes or want to hear them again? then- Sure.
Jack (38:09)
The main obstacles. Yeah. So, the meaning of your life. Like, what is the meaning of your life? Why are you here on earth? That's answering that question is the first obstacle. The second obstacle is acknowledging the weight of your own suffering. Sometimes, you know, people refer to this as defining the brutal reality, being willing to ask God why and okay with living in the mystery of not knowing why, but knowing that you're not alone and that there is a path forward.
Love it.
Joey (38:40)
I want to switch gears a little bit and ask the question, you know, what's the danger if we don't handle suffering well? We kind of alluded to it at the beginning, but I think sometimes, especially if we're not in the midst of suffering, we can have this kind of attitude of like, yeah, I'm good. Like maybe I'll kind of cross this bridge when I come to it, but I'm curious, like what's the danger if we don't handle suffering well?
Jack (39:02)
suffering will make you or it will break you. And that's just a phrase. So let's talk about it on actual terms. A friend of mine, he's older than me. He's significantly older than me. When he was 19, he was dating the girl that he thought that he was going to marry. And he found out that she was actually cheating on him. He's 19 years old, all American, star of the football team, hilarious, just, and really good person, right? Very attractive.
human being in general, not just he is good looking, but just like an attractive person. A lot of people were drawn to him. Find out that she's cheating on him, never enters into a serious relationship again for the rest of his life. He was defined. He let this person's choice and the pain that he felt and the suffering that he went through define the rest of his life and rob him of so many good things. A story that I heard many years ago of two men who were in Auschwitz together, two Jewish men who were in Auschwitz together. They hadn't seen each other.
There was 30 or 40 years they hadn't seen each other since they were liberated from the camps and they're surprised they're both giving like a 40 year anniversary talk and they're surprised that they're together. And so they see each other and they have this amazing embrace and they both share a little bit of a witness of what their friendship was like and how it helped them get through Auschwitz and things like that. All off the cuff, all really beautiful. They take Q &A at the end and someone raises their hand. like, have you forgiven the Nazis? And the first one stands up and says, no, and I never.
And the second man looks at him and goes, I'm so sorry for you, my friend, that after all these years, the Nazis still live rent free in your mind. They still have you imprisoned in your own mind. Yes, yes, son, I have forgiven them and I've forgiven them long ago. Right? Like that's the cost. Nobody looks at me and says like, there's the sick kid. Right? No one looks at you, Joe, and you're like, you're the child of divorce. You're the guy who never bounced back. You're not defined by that.
There are so many other things like just being in your presence and having gotten to know you a little bit since the first podcast and getting to spend some time with you. Like what I would define you as is like you're one of the best and sincerest listeners I've ever met in my life. That's what I think of when I think of Joey. know, like I'm like, it's beautiful. Like that's what you're defined by. You're not defined by this brokenness and that's at cost. That's what you're really missing in many ways.
Joey (41:21)
So good. No. And I think by everything you said, I would just echo and yeah, and just even in my own life, just it's kind of humbling what I hear you saying, especially in that story of the two men from Auschwitz, our lives can go different ways, right? We get to choose and we can't control what happens to us, but we can control what we do in response to it. And yeah, it's humbling for me even to think back of just a different path I could have taken.
and how my life would have looked totally differently. And I think at the core of so much of it is just like great mentors that I had who came alongside me and helped me deal with pain in life. And man, would my life, I would be in a very different spot without going into too much. would definitely not be married. I wouldn't have kids. I, yeah, would probably be living a pretty empty life, chasing pleasure, you know, maybe even, I don't even know, like maybe even not a free man. ⁓ But so I think it's amazing to think that this has such.
deep consequences. This isn't just some nice philosophical thing to think about. Like people we know are suffering every single day. We will suffer even if we haven't and how we handle it can again make or break you like you said. So good, I love this and I want to know more about your course. If you would tell us about it and you know what are you offering through it and what's the transformation especially that you want people to experience who go through it?
Jack (42:39)
Yeah, thank you. One last thing on that point of suffering that I forgot to mention. Nothing worth having in this life, like truly worth having in this life comes without suffering. Like you want a great marriage, it's going to be tough. You want to be an Olympic athlete, like are you wondering why after every final race there's people on their knees crying? Because of the tremendous suffering and the blood, sweat and tears they put into. You want to lose 20 pounds. ⁓
the food you're gonna have to eat, the workouts you're gonna have to do, it's not gonna be fun, it's not gonna be easy. You want mastery, ⁓ you wanna be masterful at something professionally. You have got to do it. If you wanna become a writer and write a book, well, you should probably write every day for years. It was pretty awesome, I'll share a little bit about it, because it'll come out soon. I just got word today that my first book is going to be published. And I'm super excited.
like, ⁓ great. Like, I've only known you in the last year. Like, you're a writer. I'm like, I have written, this is like my fifth book, and the first four were terrible. And I have written every single day for the last seven years, for at least an hour. You know, it's like, and it has sucked at times. And it's been terrible. you know, we often only see the end result. they're like, I would love to, you know, get published in a book. Right? Well,
Okay, if you want that, like you've got to go through suffering. So anything really worth achieving in life, you have to endure some pain to get there. And so that's what we forgotten. Anyway, so the course, the course is not actually for that piece. The course is for people who want to make the most of their suffering and they don't know how and they're looking for a path. They desire to make more out of their suffering. They just need a little bit of help and a little bit of support. So this is a five week experience.
It happens via email where on Mondays you receive a teaching from me. On Wednesdays I interview someone who personifies that teaching, who has gone through an experience of suffering and has emerged better from it. On Thursday I give you practicals. It's not just in theory teaching. It's not just the witness of a story, but I actually give you homework, things that you can do. And then on Sundays I actually connect to the lesson directly to a particular gospel passage. And we do that every week for
for five weeks and the content is really meaningful and really, powerful, especially the witnesses of other people. It's all in audio, so you can do it. You can listen to it while you're working out, while you're driving. It's really meant for stay at home mom or stay at home dad, slicing veggies, popping an earbud in the ear and listening to something that's gonna help them get through whatever it is, is right in front of them. The transformation for me is,
You go from stuck to free to make the most of your life. Stuck in a rut, stuck blocked by some sort of hidden obstacle that you can't get past, to free to make the most of your suffering. The course is called Rise. And this is really, for anyone who's, you know, will get value out of it if they've experienced suffering, but for the person who's on the ground right now, and they're like, I don't know how I'm gonna get up and start walking again, it was designed for you.
It's designed to teach you how to get up and start walking. So that years from now, you'll be able to look back and go. That was literally the best thing, the best decision I've ever made in my entire life is to deny my parts that want to wallow, to stand up and to walk the path forward.
Joey (46:15)
I love it. And how can people get it if they want to?
Jack (46:17)
If you go to the catholicmentor.com, first thing that'll pop up actually is one of those little pop up things. And it will be an invitation to download a free episode of the course. So you can get that there, or you can go to catholicmentor.com slash rise. And that has a way for you to sign up. It's only 20 bucks. I wanted to make it super accessible. It's tons of content, tons of information. And, you know, I was, I was told by chat GPT and other advisors like,
hey, you gotta sell this for 200 bucks, 250 bucks. I'm just like, this message is not gonna be contained by me. Anyone who needs it is gonna get it. This isn't about making money, this is about putting a dollar on it that will get you to listen to the first episode, otherwise accessible to pretty much anyone. You can forego a couple of cups of coffee to purchase this course and hopefully make the most of your life.
Joey (47:13)
Good stuff, man. Well, thank you for sharing about all that. I'm glad you were able to come back on the show. ⁓ If you could leave everyone with maybe one challenge or encouragement or piece of advice, what would you offer? Especially keeping in mind that the people listening right now come from families that are dysfunctional, divorced, and they may be carrying that suffering with them.
Jack (47:32)
You were born to do this. You were born to rise to the occasion of what's in front of you. You really were. You may not like that. That may not be exciting. That may not be ⁓ exactly what you want to hear. But you can do this. And even more than that, you were made to do this. And you were made to do hard things. Because if you don't do them, you will become a shell of who you could be. And more than anything in this world, I want you to be able to look back on your life and say, I rose to the occasion of.
I became who I was made to be and I became that through this thing. So don't be afraid, you were born to do this
Joey (48:10)
If Jack's course interests you, definitely encourage you to sign up for at least a free lesson just so can try it out. And like Jack said, the course itself is only $20. And for our listeners, he's actually offering a free 45-minute mentorship session with him for anyone who buys the course, but even for people who don't buy the course. And so you can find the link to that free mentorship session as well as to the course itself in the show notes. That wraps up this episode. If this podcast has helped you, feel free to subscribe or follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
You'll avoid missing future episodes and help us more people. If you've already done that, feel free to rate or review the show. We really appreciate that feedback and that also helps people find. In closing, always remember you are not doomed to repeat your family's dysfunction. You can break that cycle and build a better life. And we are here to help and keep in mind the words of CS Lewis who said, you can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.
What Can I Do If I Feel My Parents Didn't Love Me?
If you’ve ever thought "my parents didn't love me", and wondered what that says about you, this post speaks the truth and shows what comes next.
7-minute read.
To love and be loved: that’s what we were made for, right? And who better to teach us what that looks like than our parents?
Unfortunately, that’s not the case for everyone.
The hard truth is that parents are people too. And people are, well, human. And humans are liable to make mistakes—sometimes really big ones. (Just open the Bible to page one for Exhibit A.)
Even parents who give their absolute best to their children fall short—it’s part of that whole ‘human’ thing mentioned above. Whether it’s losing their temper or missing a dance recital, or working longer hours than necessary, disappointment is inevitable. Sometimes, the way our parents fall short isn’t just disappointing—it’s devastating.
What It Really Felt Like Thinking My Parents Didn't Love Me
Children from broken families are liable to suffer emotional neglect: a lack of love and attention from their parents.
Going through a divorce is time-consuming, heartbreaking, and completely life-changing. In the midst of it all, some parents may be so compromised that they drop the ball in one of the most important responsibilities of their lives: loving their children.
Furthermore, divorce can be accompanied by (or possibly caused by) things like mental illness, infidelity, and significant financial losses. All of this, too, can contribute to parents becoming consumed by their own suffering at the cost of the well-being of their children.
If this has been your experience, I want to first and foremost say: I’m so sorry. It seems almost unnecessary to say (but it isn’t): this is not okay, and it should not be this way.
Maybe you want to justify your parents’ behavior or find a way to make it okay. It can be extremely difficult to admit that our parents hurt us or that they messed up. But it happens. And bringing that to light doesn’t mean you have to vilify them or that the parent-child relationship is forever broken.
In fact, admitting your parents made a mistake is the first step to forgiveness and healing. You can overcome parental rejection, but not until you first admit that it happened.
This first step can be incredibly difficult. It means facing hurt, anger, grief, and loss that you possibly haven’t experienced or thought about in years. It’s heartbreaking and overwhelming.
You may also feel guilty blaming your parents—this is normal. When you love someone, it can feel easier to pretend they never hurt you and instead blame yourself rather than facing the painful reality that someone you care about so much hurt you so deeply.
The thought “my parents didn’t love me” is one of the most painful things a child can experience. If this is where you are, give yourself the grace to experience the loss and the pain that accompany this feeling. Consider journaling what you are experiencing or speaking to a trusted mentor about it. It may also help when you are feeling overwhelmed to go for a walk. You can find more strategies for handling difficult emotions in our book, It’s Not Your Fault.
The thought “my parents didn’t love me” and the experience of parental rejection can also affect your identity for years and years to come. We’ll talk about that next.
How a Broken Parent-Child Relationship Shapes Your Identity
Wounds that arise from those formative relationships (such as with our parents) can be some of the deepest and the most challenging to heal.
If you grew up believing, “My parents didn’t love me”, it likely played a role in shaping how you see yourself and how you see the world. The parent-child relationship is crucial to feeling loved and secure; therefore, when there is emotional neglect, significant damage takes place in our understanding of love, trust, and self-worth.
Here are some examples of what can happen if you feel unloved by your parents:
You see yourself as inherently unlovable and unworthy of love
You blame yourself for the neglect that you experienced because you think something is wrong with you
You think a successful romantic relationship is impossible for you
You don’t trust others, even those who say they care about you
You feel anxious in relationships, assuming the other person doesn’t truly love you and will leave
You avoid getting close to others because you fear they will realize something is wrong with you and will no longer want anything to do with you
You become a ‘chameleon’, presenting whatever you think others expect or want of you, so that you won’t face more rejection
You avoid taking risks, especially when rejection is a possibility
This list is not comprehensive. The effects of feeling unloved in a parent-child relationship are vast and long-lasting. They essentially shape the way we view ourselves and the world, especially in terms of relationships. It’s like walking on a broken leg that never healed properly; it affects every step you take and holds you back from operating the way you could.
If this sounds like you, don’t worry, overcoming parental rejection and its effects is possible. The first step is understanding what feeling loved actually means.
What Feeling Loved Actually Means When You Never Felt It
One of the biggest aspects of feeling loved is security. Feeling loved means you are not constantly guessing, wondering, or hoping that someone loves you, because you know that they do! Another essential element to feeling loved is feeling seen, in other words, feeling that the other person truly understands you.
Feeling loved means you are not afraid of conflict because you don’t think the relationship is a glass slipper; it can handle friction. Feeling loved means you don’t have a need to prove yourself as good or lovable. It also means that you don’t see every problem in the relationship as your fault.
These are some of the key parts to feeling loved. However, we know that love isn’t a feeling—it’s a choice! It can be easy for children of divorce to conflate warm and fuzzy feelings with love. This means that if warm and fuzzy feelings are absent, you may think that you don’t really love that person or that they don’t love you.
It’s important to recognize that feeling loved doesn’t mean you feel happy 24/7, that there are never any problems in the relationship, or that you never have doubts. Especially for children of divorce, doubts and anxiety can besiege us even in a healthy, loving relationship.
For more guidance on navigating relationships if you are from a broken family, listen to episode #136 of the Restored podcast.
Overcoming Parental Rejection by Finding Unshakable Love
So, how do you go from feeling unloved to feeling loved? How do you overcome parental rejection and all the fallout that comes from a dysfunctional parent-child relationship?
In order to find healing as a child of divorce and overcome thought patterns such as “my parents didn’t love me,” it is essential that you understand this unshakeable truth: you are loved.
You are loved by a love that is complete, unwavering, and unconditional. You are loved by the One who created you and who holds you in existence. You are loved so thoroughly that someone died a torturous death for you.
Understanding and experiencing God’s love can be difficult for children of divorce. Because our model of love is distorted, we often attribute the qualities of our relationship with our parents to our relationship with God.
Understanding and embracing God’s love for you will help reshape your identity as someone who is good and lovable. It will also help you overcome trust issues and see the world in a more positive light. If you struggle to feel God’s love, here are some places to start:
Read Scripture, specifically passages such as Psalm 139, Psalm 103, and the story of Christ’s death and resurrection. Read them slowly and more than once, giving yourself time to truly take in the meaning of what you are reading.
Pray the ‘I Thirst’ prayer by Mother Teresa. If you can pray this in front of the Blessed Sacrament, even better.
Go to Confession and experience the power of God’s mercy and forgiveness.
Meditate on the ways that God has loved you through others and provided for you over the years. Practice gratitude for the blessings you have received over the years, and look for God’s guiding hand in your life, even if you didn’t recognize it at the time.
Seeking a good spiritual director can be helpful to implement these ideas correctly.
This episode of the Restored podcast can help if you are feeling angry toward God, as often happens with children from broken families.
It may take time and repetition, but these strategies can help you to reshape your identity as a beloved child of God. Healing is possible and God wants nothing more than to have a meaningful relationship with you. If you take the first step, He will run the rest of the way.
Final Notes
Growing up feeling unloved by your parents and parental rejection can feel like insurmountable hardships—especially when it comes to experiencing love in our relationship with God and with others. The good news is that to love and be loved is what you were made for, regardless of the trauma you have in your past. Healing is within reach for everyone and the life and love you were meant for are yours for the taking.
Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored? If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing.
Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.
My Parents Refused to Separate
What followed, I will simply say, was the lowest point of my life. I very quickly met a bad crowd and started to spiral out of my faith and moral decency. I began dating, and very little of it was done properly. I began to struggle with depression and coped with alcohol and impurity. My family situation had been steadily getting worse. My parents refused to separate, but were unable to even have simple conversations without venom and arguments ensuing.
36-minute read.
This story was written by Anonymous at 24 years old. His parents never separated. He gave permission for his story to be shared. Names have been changed to respect their anonymity.
HIS STORY
I was born into a Catholic family and am the middle kid of 5 (all sisters). I’ll begin with some background. My parents began fighting when I was about 8 or 9 years old. I wasn’t sure why, but me and my sisters could tell there was something going on. For the first year, it was mostly tense moments and hushed arguments between them. By the time I was about 10 years old, they had evolved into shouting and screaming matches. All of us kids began to pick up on why they were fighting. Me and my sisters began to put the pieces together from our parents shouting about their issues. It turns out my dad had been viewing pornography the entirety of their 17 years of marriage and my mom had found out recently. This was after 6-7 really terrible miscarriages and the (nearly miraculous) birth of our youngest sister in 2010. My mom’s world was shattered. She felt betrayed and deceived. My dad would continue to maintain that he was a changed man and was no longer looking at it.
That same year, I found my dad’s pornography. I can’t imagine the introduction of pornography is easy or not traumatic to any young child. But I found my dad’s. I was devastated. I was scared and confused and utterly lost. I had been a good kid, trying my hardest to pray and serving Mass regularly. But the temptation was too great for me. I remember the absolute hatred I felt for my dad later that night, but I knew it was also directed at myself. How could I do that? I realized the source of my parents’ arguing was due to her distrust of him. He would maintain that he had given it up and was no longer looking at it. Obviously lying to her.
I watched their marriage fall apart, held captive by fear and disgust with myself. I was struggling with my purity and regularly failing, only to be consistently persecuted by my conscience, telling me that it was my fault they were fighting. Every time they fought, I would be tormented with my failure to speak up, to say anything. I watched my mom slowly fall into a depressed state within the next year. My siblings and I stepped up to help with my youngest sister while my mom would stay in her room for longer and longer at a time, miserable and hurting. I believed this was my fault, that I could fix this, except that I was too weak to say anything. I was terrified of the consequences and kept quiet because I did not know what would happen if it was brought to light. I had no one to share with, I spent nights alone in my room, listening to them fighting and I started sneaking out of the house at night to the car where the porn was — a coping mechanism. Anything to distract myself. Other times I used to walk through our yard and on the back roads, trying to distract myself any way possible. There was no relief.
My sisters shared a room and I used to imagine going in there and hanging out, but I couldn’t because I held myself responsible in part for their pain and suffering. I was the one hiding this information from my parents and holding everyone hostage between my parents’ constant fights. I was scared that if I said anything, they would separate and it would be my fault, but them fighting was my fault because I said nothing. No matter what I did, I hurt my family, my parents, and myself. It felt like I was holding my family captive to serve my own desires and as a result of my failures.
Over this time, I would resign myself to fixing their marriage. I didn’t know how to go about it, but it was what I put my hope in. I tried everything I could. I shouted, got angry, wrote them an (obviously written by me) anonymous letter — placed discreetly in our mailbox from a “concerned neighbor” telling them how they were hurting their kids. Each month that passed by was another month of failure, another month of being incapable of making a change. But I refused to give up. My entire family refers to me as the most stubborn person to exist. I needed to be, because to stop throwing myself against a brick wall in an attempt to make a difference was to give up on hope. To give up on peace and happiness. I fought and I fell, and got back up, again and again. This continued for 4 terrible years. All the self-hate. The late nights reading books until I literally passed out with the light on and slouched over my book because I could not fall asleep. My mind would not turn off, or my parents were fighting, or I simply needed a distraction.
Soon after I had discovered the porn, I wrote off my dad. I began to look up to my friends’ dads and I thank God that I got to experience (even briefly) the beauty of a holy and happy marriage, even if it left me with a greater sense of longing and the accompanying despair at the absence of it. I had also been serving every Sunday and most weekdays by the time I was 9 and had developed great respect for my pastor at the time, Fr. M. Despite me acting out throughout my childhood and teen years, despite my anger and rebellious nature, the one person who I always respected was Fr. M. During a time that I was convinced of my fault and burdened with shame and guilt, he encouraged me to keep being holy, to keep fighting, always believing that I was capable of great things which I desperately needed to believe.
By the time I was 8-9, I had begun to consider priesthood, without really recognizing the true nature of it. I just knew that every time I served, there was a peace that would have me longing for it throughout the week at home. Serving Mass became my safe haven. I looked forward to every weekend and the chance to serve again. Soon after, Fr. encouraged me to consider being a priest. I was now presented with another issue: I felt a strong desire to it, but was convinced in my heart that I was a bad person because of my home life and my struggles with purity. I felt isolated; I did not know holy people struggled with porn. I knew the turds in my sports all joked about this stuff and talked about it without concern, but they weren’t Catholic. I knew this was a major deal, but I was terrified of talking about it. It was so closely linked to my parents. My parents had tried to maintain their social standing, pretending like everything was fine, but talking to their friends and sharing info about the other to their circles. This widened the gap between them and I believe sealed the coffin.
Every Sunday at church, their kids would be in the choir, serve, or be part of the various groups and we would get compliments that only left a sour taste with all of us. They were unwilling to simply sit and have an honest conversation with each other. I thought the solution was so simple — just to sit and talk to each other, and it angered me when they would passive-aggressively mention the other or confide in anyone but themselves. They began to separately pull the kids aside and talk to us, apologize, or complain about the other parent.
This despair continued for 4 years, seeing the steady disintegration of our family life. I still believed this was my fault and resigned myself to dealing with it, but also continued to try and protect my sisters if I could. Our mom would take us to the library about 3 times a week and we would get books. I realized this was an opportunity to try and find a solution. I read about everything, both as a distraction and as a means of helping. I brought books home and would read till I passed out. Books about psychology, philosophy, theology, etc. In this search, I came across the cynics and from there would pick up the Enchiridion and the Stoics. As someone who was struggling daily to convince himself there was hope — and constantly being disappointed — I was drawn into the abyss of indifference that was initially cynicism and eventually became stoicism. This was a way to feel happy! Finally, I was being offered a sure-fire way to remove the constant hurt and pain, the loneliness and shame/guilt. The answer was so simple: to not care. I could have peace if I simply convinced myself I didn’t care about my family, or my ethics, my sisters, my parents, anything. None of them were something I could control. What felt like a lifetime consisting only of failure to have a good effect confirmed me in this delusion. I was never capable of doing them any good to begin with. I was only responsible for myself and my happiness. I’m ashamed to say that it did supply me relief to be so selfish and care only about myself.
I began to analyze myself, recognizing where in my life I was “bound” by feelings of obligation and fondness. I began what I called detachment from my concerns. My family? Merely people I was randomly allotted to assist in my development. Not people who had any impact on myself or my emotions unless I let them. I wrote my first psychological self-evaluation when I was 12 and at the prodding of various books, began to research deeper into philosophy and psychology as I believed it was the cure to my world being a mess. It became the new source of hope. If I could just understand it all better, there was bound to be some solution and an offering of peace and happiness. I thank God that I found stoicism because it primed me for all of the progress to come. However, first came the overcorrection. I began to attack the principle of sympathy — and eventually empathy — as a means to find relief from my guilt. I hyper-fixated on the faults associated with dependency, damning it in all regards, and started to cognitively and physically disassociate myself from all forms of dependency. Dependency from my parents, family, friends. I only needed myself; this was possible, relief was possible, so long as I never counted on anybody. I could never be disappointed.
Except that I knew deep down, no matter how hard I tried, I needed others just as I was compelled to help others. If my sister or friend were struggling, I couldn’t bring myself to justify letting them struggle alone. No matter how selfish I tried to be, focusing on only what I wanted to do or have, I couldn’t bring myself to dismiss others’ needs. I was not perfect at this by any means, but I remember reading the life of St. Don Bosco and being inspired every time I read it, over and over. His life of service and complete surrender to God, his life of service to those poor boys whom I likened myself to. I began to have a great love and desire for the priesthood, to emulate what I read about. To be a source of comfort and a caregiver to those in need. In desolation, I found Don Bosco, the caretaker who watched over me throughout my struggles and low points. Who had a love for boys like me that I so desperately wanted to experience. In St. Don Bosco’s life story, there is mention of another Saint who I credit my life and happiness to: St. Dominic Savio. A sickly boy with nothing, no one to care for him, no family except for a kindly priest and father-figure, Don Bosco. But who remained resolute, never bending, never faltering under attacks and derision. Who, when he saw friends arguing and reaching for stones with which to bash each other’s heads in, stepped in between them and quelled the fight, saying that if they were to throw stones at each other, they must be thrown through him. This young man was capable of what I spent my childhood trying to do. I longed to be like St. Dominic Savio, to stand up between my parents and bring about some miraculous change.
I began to recognize that stoicism at its best failed to satisfy the needs of the human condition. I did believe stoicism held truths about resilience and concern, so I began looking further into it. Eventually, in my later teen years, when I was about 14-15, I came across Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) and its successor Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Through CBT (the therapy, not the drug), I found a source of hope. I knew I was going through things and I knew I needed help, but I was still unable to ask for it, so I began — quite clumsily — treating myself.
Now it is important to take a moment to mention my pastor once more. When I look back at my life, he seems to be the only constant. An unwavering symbol of pastoral and fatherly care. I really began to look at Fr. M not as just a priest, but as my father figure. As a teenager, I distinctly remember deciding that Fr. M was a man that I would like to be like someday. He was the virtuous role model I was longing for, and I learned a lot about what it meant to be a man from watching him. Many say he is a bit of a hard-ass, but to a young boy looking for a father — Fr. was a wonderful example of fatherhood and a real source of consolation to my troubled childhood. One of the only reasons I am not in jail or worse. I was also beginning to understand what the priesthood meant and continued to feel a strong pull to discernment of it. In this, I was encouraged by Fr. M and so I began to read, pray, and discern the priesthood when I was about 14 years old.
But shame persists through every obstacle; my parents’ relationship got really bad and every once in a while, my mom would be so angry, she would take the car and leave for the night or a couple of hours. Things were bad and I regressed into a miserable state. At this same time, my struggles with pornography were debilitating. Removing the joy I had been receiving from Mass and the Sacraments, while also making me feel like a liar — like my dad — every time someone said I was a good kid, or Fr. encouraged me to be a priest. I soon dreaded serving. Every time I was told I should be a priest, I was struck with sorrow because I couldn’t imagine how I could possibly be worthy.
I had been in a boys’ high school youth group with two friends for a year or so before we went to Georgia for a national conference. It was there that a group of teenage boys all openly and honestly shared their struggles with pornography and masturbation. I was dumbfounded, awestruck. I had no clue others struggled to the extent that I did. My world and years of shame were turned upside down as I tried to process this. My close friend then shared his own struggles and I was next. I was being asked to be honest about something I had spent years covering up, pushing down, and associating so much guilt and shame with. I felt like I was not only admitting to struggling with porn but also outing my family’s dysfunction. I WAS PETRIFIED. And I still feel such disgust for myself in that moment because I looked at all of these guys and my close friends in the eyes and I lied. I lied about the porn to those who had been so honest with me. It destroyed me a little bit to have withheld that from them. I told them it wasn’t really something that I struggled with. I was so lost and broken, in my mind, I had become my dad. I had lied to those who cared for me and betrayed my friendship with others. I spent an hour walking around alone before I found a young adult leader who had traveled with us. I broke down and needed to prove that I was a good person, so I told him I was struggling with porn and needed help. God bless him, he had no clue what to do with that info and I don’t blame him. He never brought it up after that night and neither did I. I was once again miserable because nothing had changed and I had still betrayed the trust of my friends.
A week after we got back, we went on a boys’ camping retreat where I was surrounded by the guys I had lied to. I was miserable and depressed. I couldn’t bear to be near them and didn’t have the strength to ask for help again. I constantly wandered off to be alone because I hated myself every time I was near them. One morning, I snuck down to the river and sat there alone while everyone else was eating breakfast. I remember sitting there and just feeling the waves of misery running through me. I felt physically and mentally numb, like nothing mattered and even if it did, I wasn’t capable of anything. I remember thinking about going back home, but thinking that there was no way I could. I couldn’t live there. I never wanted to leave the spot I was sitting, if only to never go home again.
During this, Fr. M walked down the hill and joined me. I don’t know why he was down there — it could have been because my mom or dad had been to spiritual direction with him to complain about each other, so he was keeping an eye on me. Or maybe he saw me sulking and was concerned. Or maybe he just wanted time alone and I surprised him by being there. After some light pleasantries and a silence, he asked me out of the blue:
“Are you melancholic?”
He had asked in a delicate, almost playful manner. I do not know if he was asking to test the waters or if he was just making fun of me for sitting alone. But I was stunned. I didn’t know how to respond because I was so much more than that. He sat with the brief silence and pressed:
“Do you know what melancholic means?”
That — for some reason — pushed me out of my stupor and I arrogantly replied:
“Yes, I know what melancholic means, Fr.”
Other kids began walking down to join us at this point, but I was left with a multitude of emotions. I had wanted to break down right in front of Fr. and tell him everything, to ask him to help me. I had felt a warm and comforting feeling of genuine concern from him. I have always been a reserved kid when it came to emotions (except for anger) and was very good at masking my pain. But for the first time, I had let it slip. I was being asked how I was doing with genuine concern, from someone who had always been there for me, from someone who did not use me as fodder in their arguments. Concern from someone who loved me unconditionally, from the man who showed true fatherhood in his example and pastoral care. I was struck by that and within the next 5 minutes I had decided I would tell him everything and ask him what I should do. He was to be the St. Don Bosco to my St. Dominic Savio.
After that decision alone, there was already a sense of consolation being given to me. I chased that. Throughout the entire day, I kept looking for an opportunity to pull Fr. aside or for an opportunity to talk in private. Eventually that night, I resolved to talk to him during Exposition while he was hearing confessions. We were outside near the waterfall and I remember trembling with fear as my feet dragged walking up the small hill to the “confessional.” I encountered a rush of every thought possible, designed and pointed to deterring me from sharing. Every question of my self-worth, every failure, every weakness, and my inability to do things. Through the grace of God, I persisted. I walked up and pulled the chair set up for me so that instead, we were face-to-face. I unloaded my situation and failures and struggles. For the first time in my life, I was sharing everything. There was relief from my burden. I asked for help and was completely honest for the first time in my life. I will spare the details of the confession except to say that Fr. showed fatherly love in his concern, and for the first time in my life, there was someone I could lean on. I could ask for help and there was someone who would look out for me.
Fr. asked me to find him after confession and talk to him again (in respect for the Seal of Confession). I will not even try to describe the joy I felt. I am still unable to express my feelings into words as I waited to talk to Fr. after Benediction. Afterwards, Fr. walked off a little ways from the group and made sure that he gave me the opportunity to talk to him. In that conversation, he asked me if I would like him to talk to my dad about the porn. To this day, I cannot thank him enough for being willing to do that for me. It might have been just a difficult conversation for him to have with his parishioner, but for me, this was the single hardest thing I had ever wanted to do and had never been able to overcome. The following weekend after we had returned from the retreat, Fr pulled my dad aside and talked to him about his porn. My dad and I would later sit down and he would talk to me about it and apologize. I was not capable of forgiving him in that moment, and there didn’t seem to be any change. In fact, I had to be the one to get rid of some of the pornographic CDs. I somewhat melodramatically broke them and burned them one night, about a week after.
Things were good for a while. My relationship with my parents was strained, but gone were the days of feeling guilty for their problems and the struggles of my family. I made progress in the pursuit of chastity for the first time in my life. Things seemed like they were on the right track. I began to wrestle with concerns about my worthiness to become a priest and I began to take a closer look at my motivations and where I would like to be in the future. I became convinced that my desire for the priesthood was simply a product of trauma-induced idolization of my father figure and not a genuine call. I believed there might be a real avoidance and fear of marriage that I was hiding from by pursuing priesthood, and so I decided that I needed to carefully examine myself and work through some things first before I went through with it.
But we are still human, and when I was 16, I was put into the Running Start program at a nearby community college. If you aren’t familiar with it, essentially you are taking college classes in place of the last two years of high school and — if completed — would graduate with a high school diploma and an Associate’s degree at the age of 18.
What followed, I will simply say, was the lowest point of my life. I very quickly met a bad crowd and started to spiral out of my faith and moral decency. I began dating, and very little of it was done properly. I began to struggle with depression and coped with alcohol and impurity. My family situation had been steadily getting worse. My parents refused to separate, but were unable to even have simple conversations without venom and arguments ensuing. They had been living in separate rooms for quite some time and were living as “friends.” Every disagreement had 5 stages:
They argue about how the other person was in the wrong
They each confide in us separately and explain why the other one was wrong
They argue about each other, using the kids as weapons and turning us against each other
They texted/emailed us each an explanation of what happened and what they had done/said to the other person, or an apology
They confronted each other about reaching out to the kids, and this was usually stage 1 of the next fight (or at least fuel for it)
This has remained the case until even today, when I am 24, still getting texts and emails about their disagreements.
I had begun working soon after I started college at 16 and was soon working two part-time jobs and bought a car. I picked up some work under the table in addition to the two other jobs and began skipping classes for work and to party with friends later that night. Throughout all of this, my parents had devolved into nightmares. Unable to bear the other, they had stopped doing anything together and would really only ever fight when they were forced to interact, yet they refused to separate. My mom had spent most of our lives using us as counselors, sharing too much information and burdening us all with things that she needed to talk to a therapist about. My dad had begun pushing himself into our lives and became overbearing. My older sisters left as soon as they were 18, and I became the “guardian” of my younger siblings. I hated every minute of my life at home and tried my hardest not to blame my younger sisters for it. I wanted more than anything to just leave, to even live out of my car rather than continue where I was.
Each of the older kids knew deep down that this was not going to be reconciled. We had lost hope and were in the emotional fetal position for most of our lives already. I began to recognize that my behaviors were building up to something which was going to wreck my life and after a particularly close call with law enforcement, I decided I needed to get away from my life. I needed to get away.
I remember one day specifically where my parents had fought most of the prior day, and on the following day (Sunday), they began to audibly shout at each other directly over my 6 or 7-year-old sister. They were arguing and hurling accusations at each other over who got to bring her to Mass with them, and something inside of me snapped. I was so fed up and I yelled at them, telling them neither of them were taking her but instead I would take her to Mass and they needed to work out their shit. I realized right then and there that my sisters desperately needed me, but I also recognized that I was not strong enough for them. I was crushed for the next year, unsure what I should do. I wanted to be strong enough for them and I stretched myself to the breaking point. Until I decided at 18 that I needed to move out, or else I wasn’t sure what would happen. I have wrestled with the guilt I have felt from leaving my younger sisters for years and I continue to do so.
I moved out at 18, within a week of being offered a room in an apartment with a friend of mine. This was without my high school diploma (because I had skipped a full year of classes) and without giving my parents notice beyond a week.
I spent a year collecting myself and working my ass off to be self sufficient. I got promoted at work and became a nutrition coordinator. I began dating and spent a portion of my life considering married life. Constantly feeling unfulfilled, I began volunteering at my parish again and stopped dating to continue discernment of the priesthood. I can only barely touch on the friendships and brotherhoods I’ve had over the years. A lot of mistakes and dysfunction, mostly borne out of my lack of boundaries and out of my personal issues. I spent that time getting my porn use under control. By the time I was 23, I recognized the need to take control of my education. I went back to a High School+ program and began taking classes while working full time and volunteering at the Church. I decided the HS+ classes were taking too long and got my GED. Immediately after, I started taking college classes again to complete my Associate’s.
About 2-3 years ago, while hanging out with my sister, she broke down and began crying when I asked her how she was. Ultimately, it turned out to be my mom and dad causing her severe anxiety. She could not control her emotions in public and found herself breaking down in public and in front of friends. Now they refuse to separate but are incapable of living harmoniously together. My mom is “suffering” through this for the family and they both are scared of losing the family if they separate, so they are mutually holding each other hostage. This created an awful environment for my youngest sister, who was now living alone at home without any of my other siblings (AKA, no buffer or immediate support). The condo I was renting from a friend was not going to be available in 3 months so I decided to move into my folks’ place for a year leading into the seminary.
This was prefaced by sitting down with my parents and telling them they needed to stop fighting in front of my youngest sister. I had my older sister take the youngest for the night and invited myself over for dinner. I sat down with them and convinced them of hurting their daughter, informing them that she felt isolated and alone, suffering through everything they were blind to. Fighting had become such a routine thing for them, they had no shame in subjecting their daughter to their fighting.
I also informed them that I would be buying my sister a phone and paying for the plan so that she was not sitting alone in her room, crying over our parents fighting in the other room. This phone was something that they would not be able to take away from her, as it was because of them and it would remain under my control. I also told them that I would move in for the remaining year before seminary. I was doing this to be there for her when I could and to essentially (while it was never verbalized) parent them.
HOW HIS FAMILY LIFE IMPACTED HIM
I have spent some time working through this all and discerning, and I have realized that while the past six years have produced fruit, ultimately they were nothing more than actual avoidance of God’s Will in my life. That morning when my sister was sobbing in my car because she couldn’t stand it anymore was too much for me. I saw her struggling through everything that I had dealt with and something inside me broke. Because of this, I have been dealing with a lot of emotions over the past year that I had become quite adept at avoiding, and have been a bit of a mess at times as I try to navigate these emotions while living in the same house that caused me so much discomfort.
I’ve worked through some things throughout my life and a lot of it hasn’t been easy. It is a continual struggle, but in everything, I want to exemplify the consoling heart of Christ to those I will serve in ministry as a priest. I spent a long time convincing myself that my past and pain made me incapable of being a good priest, but I have come to realize that these are what embolden my soul in ministry. The pain that I have experienced is the fuel for the compassionate love of Christ that I am called to offer others. These trials and tribulations experienced through my family are the same things that I hope to be equipped to handle for others. I want and have a call to be what my own pastor was for me.
I still have an unpleasant relationship with my dad and there was definitely some sour feelings about being named after him throughout my entire life.
I developed OCD tendencies later in life. I was a very messy kid while I was living at home, purposely so at times to stick it to my parents. But when I moved out, I fell into the obsessive need for everything to be in its place. This is something that my mom had been doing throughout most of our teenage years as a coping mechanism. If the house was messy, she would spiral out and have a meltdown at times. Shouting and unable to control her emotions. She was unable to control anything else except the house’s cleanliness and I began to do the same in my late teen years as I was struggling with a sense of helplessness and lack of control.
I utilized many things throughout the years as coping mechanisms or distractions. Notably: porn, alcohol, work, and sweets. I began drinking at 16 with some friends and it quickly became an outlet to forget my issues. Porn has always been a coping mechanism since I was a young kid, and I had no moderation at all as a kid. I was seemingly unable to help myself around sweets, often getting in trouble for stealing desserts. I would put all of my money into candy bars or ice cream as a kid and would often end up eating 2-3 full-sized candy bars in one sitting. I can still recognize this as a coping mechanism as I often find myself listlessly strolling through store aisles and sugar loading whenever I feel off or sad.
I had an unhealthy feeling of responsibility for my family’s well-being, which put my own at risk. I was unable to enjoy my own life because I was so fixated on my family and their issues that I regularly overlooked or allowed their issues to cloud my personal life and progress.
I’ve seen this play out in my relationships and even friendships where there is a real fear that love is something that can be taken away at the slightest inconvenience. I felt the need to check in at the smallest disagreements and problems. Eventually, some friendships became relationships of tense and awkward neediness for validation of love.
I sought conflict or to be contrarian throughout my entire life. Always picking fights and would be willing to stubbornly argue my point till others gave up on me because there is a corrupt sense of comfort in conflict.
FINDING HEALING
I have been working as a youth and young adult minister for the past year, leading into the seminary where I will begin this July. I have been working diligently to adequately deal with my past. But it is an incredibly slow process, as until two years ago, I had been in denial of the pain that I had been feeling. I still find myself fighting to control my emotions over simple things.
I recently went to Seek 2025 and found myself crying in a seat at Joey’s talk. I had tried to find a time to meet him and thank him in person throughout that entire conference, but couldn’t make it work between the shifts at the booth where I was volunteering. However, the last day of the conference, as we were leaving, my boss had ordered an Uber and it ended up being too small for us all to fit, so I volunteered to stay behind and wait for another car. As our ride pulled up, my friend and I were walking to the Uber from our hotel when Joey walked right in front of me to his own ride to the airport. I was struck by the opportunity. Without being able to help myself, I interrupted him loading his bags into the trunk to introduce myself and thank him. I want to echo those thanks once more by saying that Restored’s work is appreciated and truly a source of consolation and inspiration to me.
I had been recommended to read Dr Bob Schutts when I was 16 by my spiritual director and quickly found Jason Evert, before being introduced more recently to Restored and Joey’s work through their collaboration. I have listened, cried, and been moved by many of Restored’s podcasts, as I have been so unable to express any of the thoughts or feelings that I have had to those around me, especially to those people that I am trying not to hurt, but am unable to explain why I acted the way I did. Your podcasts and book have been the explanation for my struggles and weaknesses that I have been unable to voice to those I love and have hurt.
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